Read the following and post a comment relating to the question: Did these students break the law? Why or why not? If so, what purpose was the law designed to accomplish?
After reading the article I have to say I can't side with the students. Posting pictures on sites like myspace, facebook, etc. means that the infromation is open to all of the public who have access to the internet. This list includes principals, the police, and other authority figures who can find pictures on websites and use them to punish students. I feel this is a perfectly legal way to find people who are breaking the drinkinng age law. It has been said too that more and more places where you apply for a job do a search on places like facebook to check and see if you party, do drugs, etc. This is not a violation of the first amendment because no one is voicing thier opinion or speaking about somthing they believe in, they are participating in an act that is against the law for their age group.
I don't really think it is right for kids to get busted for just being in pictures. This doesnt even really prove anything. If it was a video of a drunk kid stumbling around holding a bottle of jack and pissing everywhere that i could understand.
I have a mixed opinion on these types of cases. While the pictures arent exactly private to have a student tip off a teacher who tips off the police is a complete invasion of personal privacy. However at the same time, it's not exactly a smart decision to post pictures of yoruself with alcoholic drinks in them because all it takes is one person turning the pictures in. While the first group of people it happened to dont have as much of an excuse, the second group of kids should have known its happened before, and if they put up their pictures, it could happen again.
I'm with the students, because kids shouldn't be getting punished for things they did outside of school, and not on school grounds. I mean I would understand if someone popped open a beer in the school parking lot and got caught, yeah they should get into trouble, but kids who are drinking outside of school, shouldn't be punished in school, and kicked off sport teams for that.(That's what parents are for.) Yeah, the cops might just be doing their jobs, but a picture is a picture, they can be deceiving. A picture of someone drinking isn't the same as busting a party and actually catching kids who are under the drinking age in the act. So I think the cops are totally out of line here, but you still shouldn't post pictures of you drinking or smoking pot or anything you don't want other people knowing, because it will get out. But we still have some moron's out there who are still going to do it.
I can't take the authorities side for this because they don't have proof that they were drinking. The students were dumb for posting the pictures. Which does show evidence but unless the photos were being taking by the police. They really wouldn't know if they were posing or not yea i mean we all know that they weren't posing. We know they were drinking just like they know they were. But it's there fault for posting the pictures online. They are online which is public and the authorities do look on the internet to find things that they can bust. They are breaking the law by drinking and their underage. but the authorities still can't use them for evidence they could be posing.
When the students posted the pictures online of themselves drinking, it was their decision, and their right. If the police or principal sees the pictures, yes they could get suspicious but i don't think that they could use the pictures against them. I think that they could use the pictures to be aware of what the students are actually doing. So say the administration or coach got a tip that a player is drinking and they have seen the pictures they could help them make a decision whether to investigate the case but i do think that if it is not effecting the student during school then the administration has no authority to use the pictures against the students.
Students are getting busted for everything, and technically they were practicing underage drinking, but it had nothing to do with school, and was not done on school grounds. They knew what they were posting on the website, and they also knew that everyone could see those pictures so if they were really concerned they shouldn't have put them on there. I think the parents should have been the ones punishing them however, I don't believe that the police had the right to do that. It also depends on what the pictures were showing to punish the kids. If anything, the police should have told their parents of the pictures, and not have taken such serious measures. It is a tough issue in the court system to handle, but in most cases the parents should be taking care of it, especially if they were only drinking. If they were drinking and driving or doing other serious things like that, then the police should have taken action, but for something like that, it should be the parents that punish their children.
In a way the students did do something illegal. It's stated very clearly that alcohol is illegal for any person under the age of 21. But I most definetly do not side with the law on this one. when you put things on the internet it is for the public to see, but i dont think its right for police to bust you. they should not be able to look you up, and bust you. i dont think its fair, and i think its exactly why people dont like the police. if this really is a "free country", kids shouldnt have to live in fear of the cops busting you because they're invading your privacy. granted, it was against the law, but i still dont think its fair. they didnt catch you when you did it..i dont see how they can get you in trouble for something that you didnt get caught with in the very beginning..
I can't really say on who I'm siding on. The students had been caught once already, and they didn't try to use the first amendment to get out of the charges then, so it seems they're just looking to get out of trouble. However, it does seem that the police had voilated the student's right to free speech and expression.
I think the police had every right to press the charges that they did. First of all, the student atheletes were underage. Underage drinking is a crime, and the police had evidence to back up their convictions. The students did not have to post the pictures on the web for everyone to see; that was a mistake on their part. Also, what kind of an example would authorities be setting if they had not punished the students? Underage drinking can become dangerous if the people are not responsible, that is why there is a drinking age in the first place.
I really don't know if i can side with the students, especially if they got caught once. Also, the second time they tried using the first amendment wasn't right, if they smart they would've used it on the first account but they didn't. So therefore i don't think they should get away with it. But the biggest problem is that they broke the drinking age which wasn't right. And hopefully they would be smart and not post them drinking on a very popular website where everyone goes on.
I think the kids in this situation maybe should have thought more about posting these pictures on a site where tons of people can see. They could have at least set there pictures to private along with there profile if they really wanted to post those things. I also do beleive that the first amendment does give them a right, but still the law is age 21 for drinkind and they were underage drinking which is wrong. and if they were on contract for there school sports ect. then they should not be drinking either. so all in all i think they had it comming but it was a low blow from the police department.
Ok look, now if your naieve enough to really post a picture of yourself parting it up on myspace or facebook you deserve to get counsiling. Like i really dont think anyone really cares about you acting like a moron in front of a camera, unless your getting attacked by a tiger. So regardless if your caught, you are still going to get the proper punishment just as anyone else would.
Everyone so far has made very good points in defending their opinion. Personally i feel that poeople in general need to think twice about what they put on the internet. I feel that checking underage students profiles is a little to much. In this case i have to side with the authorities. The students should be punished for the way they acted. Maybe from this experience they will learn first off drink if your under 21. secondally that they will think twice before they put pictures of themselves on the internet. No one should think that they are untouchable. I hope the best for the students and i hope that other students learned from what happened.
I think that these students made a bad decsion but first drinking underaged, and second putting up pictures of it online where everyone can see. i dont think they should be penalized, because there really is no solid proof they were drinking...also they don't really know when these pictures were taken. also, the students shouldnt be penalized by the SCHOOL either. its not like they were drinking at school, and events and affairs outside of school property really shouldnt be any concern to the school faculty. to punish the athletes is another issue, dealing with athletic contracts and things of that nature, but still they dont have any solid proof. these students should not be penalized by the law or by the school, because they have no real proof, they werent caught in the act, and it wasn't in school. hopefully these students and others learn from this.
After reading this article i cant really side. The kids should not of posted pictures of them drinking online. cause they should know that people look at these including police and some schools. Sure the kids have the right to post what ever they want but they need to look at what can happen. cause even kids at our school have been cought in pictures on myspace or facebook. ending up with suspension and even dealing with the police. so i guess im more siding with the authorities cause there just using the free open resources to check on kids to make sure there not breaking the law. So if you dont wanna get cought dont take pictures and post them online. its that simple
and i guessi have to argue with jen alittle bit. well yes it is a fee country but... the cops arent going through your personal info you posted it for the world to see. so the cops should have the right to investigate this issue. and yes they didnt catch them in the act but pictures explian more than words and as much as actions. Just my opinion Jenn
After reading this article i have to say that i agree with both sides. How do the authorities know that the students were actually drinking alcohol.. unless the bottle distinctly shows the name of an alcohol how do they know what is in the bottle. However, the kids know that they are underage to drink and sould of thought about putting pictures like that on the internet. Anyone can access the pictures you post on myspace or facebook unless you distinctly say that only your friends can view them. The students alos probably signed a contract saying that while they participated in the sports that they would not use drugs or alcohol. So i agree with the administrations decision to take them off the team for violating the contract that they signed at the beggining off the season.
reading this article makes me question the intelligence in my generation. yes the get what they deserved for posting it on the internet. Reason one its on the internet any one can gain access to this. Two You reap the benefits of your actions, positive or negative. Third and final its like file sharing sense 90% of American youth take in by leeching or seeding files, you know its wrong but yet you still do it
I dont think that the students should get in trouble for doing something outside of school. Thats violating the students rights to have things on their facebook. If the students want to put pictures of themselves with alcoholic beveages they shouldnt have to worry about the school punishing them for it. It is all about privacy. The school isnt responsible for the students drinking outside of school so they should back off. The students werent drinking in school and they also werent caught when it happend. Those pictures could be years old for all the police know. If the students werent caught by the police when it happend then the issue is done and over with, it shouldnt be brought up later. I deffinately have to take the students side on this. If they were drinking in school then they should get punished but since they werent then the school really has nothing to do with it. Like for example, if a student was swearing at the store and a teacher walks by and yells at the student, the student doesnt have to listen to the teacher. Teachers have no control over students outside of school. so they should not be able to turn a kid in for drinking. I just think it is unfair that teachers can turn students in for something that didnt happen in school. The police should not have gotten invovled with this case to begin with. This just shows why students hate teachers and the police. The students drinking is their parents and their problem not the schools.
I really can’t side with the students in this article. These students should have thought about the consequences of posting the pictures of them drinking. If you’re going to drink when you’re underage you really shouldn’t be putting evidence on the web for the whole world to see. At this point people should know that schools and companies can hack into face book to find this information, so why not police officers. It is the students fault for being so ignorant.
After looking at this article i have realized what the world has really come to. Stupidity. The students who put pictures on myspace or whatever site, of them or others posessing alcohol are setting themselves up. They are proving to whoever looks at it that they are indeed posessing alcohol. If someone is stupid enough to post that stuff then they deserve to be charged with possession. Weather it is a matter of their right to express from the 1st ammendment, i think it is not violating their rights at all. But the students are giving the police evidence so they are privating investigators, taking pictures of themselves, and then framing themselves.
i agree, if you post procusting evidence of yourself or others while under the age in pocession of illegal material while being under the age you should be punished. but i also understands the students point of view i would feel i put photos up on the internet. on my facebook or myspace or such place i would feel that violated my privacy rights. but i get why they got punished. it was a wrong win though cause i get why the students would feel violated in there first admentment rights. but just like everything there always a limit to your rights involving boundaries and obv. those boundaries were crossed.
Well, I'm sorry if your underage and your dumb enough to do illegal things, then your dumb enough to get cought, and if your dumb enough to publish your pictures on a sight were people can public see them, then your even dummer. If you don't want to get caught, don't have evidence, and pictures are plenty of evidence. I think that the officer was well within his rights finding the pictures, and catching those students. It wasn't like the officer went into someones bag, and illegally gained possesion of a camera and looked through their pictures. The officer would need a warrent for this, however, if someone through something in the trash, then that has become public property, and the officer no longer needs a warrent to get this info. I believe the internet is like public property, I don't think a warrent is needed to get information off of the internet, since it is concidered public property. I also think that is a moral help, because I believe it teaches them a good lesson that will help them prevent doing something stupid, like drinking and driving.
I think that its the students fault and they shouldn't be mad that they got caught. If they signed some sort of contract and were caught vioilating it, than the school should be able to suspend them. For all the school knows, those pictures could have been taken during the summer and doesnt concern them. They did break the law and it wasn't like the police were looking for them to, someone just told on them. I think that the school should not have punished them, the police just did their job and they shouldnt be mad.
After reading this article, I have mixed opinions. Students most definetly set themselves up, when posting pictures of themselves using illegal substaces underage on myspace, facebook or any other website relative to those. Not saying drinking is good, but if your underage, and you're going to drink...DON'T TAKE PICTURES...DUHH?!?!...you're doing an illegal act. I believe that it's pure evidence if your caught red handed with a beer in your hand drinking and such. Your bound to get caught sooner or later. There's always that one person thats going to be a "rat" persay. For me...its just all common sense, by now we know whats wrong and whats right. Other then that and getting busted your in good shape. Looking at it in the students perspective, I could also see it as a violation of privacy. Considering, that it has nothing to do with the school system, I do not believe that they have any right to intervine unless the student(s) are on a sport, club, etc. and have signed a documented contract...other then that they should just leave it up to the police and have the police take it into there own hands.
I think that the students definitely broke the law. I mean if there's pictures of you drinking alcohol and you're underaged, then that's it. Also, if you're dumb enough to put pictures of yourself breaking the law online for everyone to see then you deserve to get in trouble because that's just plain stupid.
Personally, I feel it was wrong for the students to be doing underage drinking, but the police were also at fault for commencing such punishments. I agree with the students in that their first amendment rights were broken, however,the students know that the pictures are open to the public so they should be more aware and responsible of what pictures they choose to put on their facebook profile. This was an invasion of the students' privacy, but it was their own fault for posting those pictures. Students drinking alcohol, especially if they are underage, is an automatic "red flag" for parents and police. Not only are parents supposed to be responsible for their children, but the police serve as a guardian for kids as well. They are their to look out for students and their safety. I feel it's wrong for the police to be invading a student's privacy on the web, however students should be careful and think twice before they post suspicious pictures online.
After reading this article I have to agree that these students had a right to be punished. As kids of a technology savvy era a lot of the time we find ourselves taking advantage of the fact that parents and others of their generation don't know what we do online. And most of the time that is the case. But posting pictures on such websites as facebook and myspace aren't just available for your friends and classmates to see and it's about time that teens begin to realize that. Therefore I feel that students being punished in Vermont schools based on the pictures found on facebook are acceptable because they most likely signed similar contracts that the students at our school do before playing sports. On the other hand though, I do not think that the pictures were substantial enough evidence to convict the students and make them pay a fine. Overall though students need to learn to be more careful when posting pictures online because although alone they cannot prove minors are drinking, they can provide leads in such cases.
I beleave that the kids have a right to fight back at the charges. The kids shouldnt get in trouble for something they do outside of school just for a picture. Putting up a picture of there outside of school life is there own right, they shouldnt be accused of getting in trouble by the school for things in there personal life.
i feel as though there was not enough hard evidence. for all we know the kid was showing off trying to be "cool" and it just got out of control. The students could have poured water into the alcohol containers or something stupid like that. i have had friends do that, its just dumb luck that the cops decided to act know. what do they think they can do... stop underage drinking completely? Most of the student in highschool drink and once they turn 21 the cops cant do much. I can understand why they want to stop underage drinking... but try to catch the people in the act.... not go by heresay, cause thats all a picture is.
The absolute thoughtlessness that shrouds this case just bothers me incessantly. It goes almost entirely undisputed, apart from debates of more religious or moral grounding, that what a minor, of any age, does in the sanctuary of his or her own home is quite simply their own business; something parents should be the direct monitor of, bearing all the responsibility. However in the same way it goes relatively undisputed that as soon as any minor posts pictures of themselves involved in illegal activities on a profiling website which is specifically designed for friends and strangers alike to view, it must be assumed that, like throwing out the trash onto the public sidewalk, you've completely relinquished all ties and burdens over it, and it is now in anyone's domain to view. Never-the-less it's rather sleezy of the student informant who told on the kids posing with alcohol in their hands, to go directly to school authorities with it. In all honesty, and the point has been made, the act was committed outside of school and therefore the school shouldn't have any jurisdiction. However the police, whose jurisdiction unfortunately, now today in the age of the patriot act extends well into our homes, have the right to prosecute the students. Also one quick note. Who the hell is these kids lawyer? The first Amendment? The first amendment has literally almost no bearing here. The freedom of speech and expression isn't about posting incriminating pictures of oneself imbibing (a word which by definition means "in the act of consuming") alcohol on the World Wide Web. It's most definitely about more honorable pursuits of protest and speaking out against a united majority. The law these students should be defending is the fourth amendment it seems. You know, actually privacy. Yet their case probably steers away from it because it inadvertently states that if someone informs the authorities with specific information about a crime, those authorities can pursue it. Drink if you want but drink without cameras... you'll just get screwed. Many have tried and very few have succeeded at evading the law.
after i read this article the first thing i did was check my facebook for any of that kind of stuff (just kidding). i thought these students had a right to be angry by this but they are the ones who put those pictures on a public website that anyone can see. yes their privacy was breached a little bit but they should watch out what they are doing. im sure if i was in their shoes, i would feel the same way but when it is you in that situation you are obviously going to feel the same way about it. the police did not violate any privacy laws or violate any rights to people by this and they were not in the wrong whatsoever.
These students of South Burlington High School undoubtedly broke the law when they were underage drinking and they made a foolish decision to post photos of them possessing alcohol on facebook. The argument by the students that facebook is private to the student is completely false. They know that when you put pictures onto facebook that they can be accessed easily and are, from then on, public information. They also said that it is part of the first amendment that they have the right to show pictures of them drinking under age. The first amendment cannot shield you from the fact that you broke the law. This is also the second time that this has happened; you should think that the kids would learn their lesson. The punishment that the hockey player received is actually quite lenient, only being suspended from a sports team. Pictures are substantial evidence when dealing with the possession of alcohol. After all you do not need to be caught in the act to show possession, pictures can clearly show that.
if the student athletes signed a substance free contract, and they violated that clearly, than the school has every right to suspend them from their respective sports. not only did this happen in vermont, but there has been a few cases of this right here in our own little piece of heaven known as plymouth regional high school. while obviously it seems kinda underhanded for a student to bring something like this to the attention of the administration, no one can really expect the school to just sit back and let it happen. if they did it would almost seem like they were condoning the aforementioned actions. if the kids want to drink they should be a little smarter about it, i am not condoning underage substance abuse, but if they are putting videos and pictures of themselves on facebook or myspace doing a keg stand or shotgunning a beer, they are just asking for trouble. and as everyone can see, i have no life because i am blogging for school at 1:30 in the morning.
The students cannot bed convicted there is not enough physical evidence to convict these students, any judge will tell you that an open alcoholic beverage in hand does not meen that you are guilty of internal possesion of alcohol. Unless there is a B.A.C. of these students at the time of teh alleged intoxication then these students cannot be convicted.
Kevin the kids did do this out side of school but they still broke the law... there under aged and like Chris said they signed a contract saying they wont drink or do drugs. Breaking that the school and law enforcement could step in suspend the kids and even make the kids do communite service or something along the lines. And yes the have the right to fight back but it wont do much with picture proof of what they did.
I read the article and as much as i would like to agree with the students, i cant. The students had the right to post those pictures on facebook, but there's nothing in the first ammendment that says the police can't nab them for something illegal, just cus they have the right to post. The students were all doing something illegal and if they get in trouble that's their own fault for posting the pictures. They still have the right to post them, nothing is saying they hav to take them down, they just are going to get in trouble for underage drinking.
The students are just a bunch of idiotas. If they put up a picture of them killing someone, would they expect to get away with it? How thick can you be.
After reading this I have to say I don't agree with the students.One if the students knew they were on a sports team they shouldnt be drinking anyways and if they did choose to they are just stupid to put pictures online.Drinking underage is breaking a law and the police had every right to step in and do something. One thing that some other people said is that they did it outside of school so the school shouldnt have anything to do with it;I aree with this but the students signed a contract saying they wouldnt so i believe at that point the sports team does have say.I think a picture doesnt prove they are guilty of drinking but why take a picture and put it online if you as a sstudent know there is a chance of have to deal with the police?
i don't really think it's right for them to use those pictures against the kids- but then again i don't think they should have been underage drinking as well. maybe it would make more sense for the kids to be punished by just the police instead of the school. what did those kids drinking have to to with school at all? they were drinking outside of school, not in school. and those pictures really can't be used as evidence because who says that it's not fake? i mean obviously they were drinking.. but in an official evidence situation, i'm not sure it would actually work.
I think that the students weren't too smart posting pics of them "gettin crunk". The cops and school have all the right to intervene if they kids decide to drink duringa time when they have signed a contracts satyin that they wont. i dont have any objections to the police of school using facebook or anyother website with picutres and profiles as evidence.
I don't agree with what the students say. I think that if they're ignorant enough to post pictures of them doing things, or being involved in illegal activities, such as underage drinking, then those pictures are free game. What these students were doing, is illegal, so obviously photos of them drinking or in the possession of alcohol, can get them caught. It's the students faults' for getting caught doing something illegal and then posting the pictures on facebook to publicize their rebelliousness. Maybe they did it to look cool and macho or whatever, but it's still illegal, and it seems like they're more upset that they got caught than that it's an invasion of privacy... if they were concerned about that, then they just simply wouldn’t have a facebook. It's so easy for anyone to copy, paste, or save pictures posted on networks like this, so if it's something that one could get caught or in trouble for, it's better off left off the internet.
... And I agree with Jupe, that if these students were playing school sports, under a contract that stated they would not participate in illegal activity like drinking, then the school has every right to prosecute them for this. They signed a written document saying the wouldn't participate in under age drinking, or the use of other drugs, and they clearly broke that contract, their fault.
I think that its partly the fault of the students that they got caught. Obviously your drinking underage and the pictures are found theres going to be some consequences. If you're going to drink dont post the pictures and it wont be an issue, not condoning it or anything. The school also kind of has a right to intervene with athletes becasue they've signed contratcs stating they wont drink during the season (not just school grounds).
If somebody puts something up on the internet then they should be ready and willing to show it to anybody that might convieably have acess to the internet, putting a picture up on any website is the same thing as putting it on your shirt, if a cop saw somebody walking down the street who was clearly a minor wearing a picture of him drinkning then that is not an invasion of privacy, if however the picture were in your pocket and the cop searched you without a warrant and found it then it could be argued as an invasion of privacy, this brings up the question as to wether a cop can visit facebook without invading peoples privacy. Invasion of privacy laws are created to protect the innocent, but these people were clearly breaking the law, they are guilty of a crime beyond any reason of a doubt and so should be prosecuted, there is a movie called The Star Chamber that deals with much the same thing. In the movie a serial murderer is released because a piece of key evidence that was found that proved him to be the killer was deemed unadmisable evidence because of the methods the cops used to obtain it. The murderer was clearly guilty yet got away with it. If some of these children are aquitted of their crime it could set a precedent for much worse criminals to do the same.
This is an abuse of power. I agree that this is going againest first amendment right. I see could if the police wanted to use them, but the school has no right to get involved. I think using pictures to prove anything in the first place is unaccecptable. If the person is not hold an actule labled bottle or can than they cannot prove what the person is drinking. Also they are not ceatching them in the act. Unless the person is caught with the alcohol or drunk than they people should not and can not be charged.
it may be their first amendment right to post photos of themselves, however it is not their first amendment right to be involved in criminal activitites. and horan, you don't need any BAC tests to prove internal possession. possession is a crime all on its own. possession is 9/10ths of the law. if someone posted a photo of an underage girl posing nude, and the police found it, would they say, oh we cannot prosecute them because of the first amendment. thats bull.
I'm not quite sure what the big deal is. The students posted their pictures on the internet where anyone can view them. It's not like TLO vs New Jersey where someone went through personal property and found illegal substances. These pictures were available to everyone and no ones rights were violated. I don't think there is a real arguement against the people who suspended the kids from their sports.
After I have read this article I agree with the students. I don't think that they should be punished by the school for things they have done outside school grounds. If the police only have evidence through pictures then what are they proving? I think the police busting the kids through facebook is fine, posting pictures on there is asking to be busted. I think if it were the principal who caught the kids on facebook then it would be different.. Overall though I think that posting pictures of partying on any sites like that is just a way to get yourself caught.
After reading the article i agree but also deagree. Kids should not put photos on a site that is open to everyone to see. They should of used common sence.And its not a violation to the kids privacy because the kids should know that everyone can see it and use it.But also the police only have photos they did not catch the kids in the act. And those pictures could of been from a long time ago. maybe some of the kids in the picture didn't even drink and there getting in trouble for nothing.But over all i can't agree with either side.
I believe that the students did something completely out of line and stupid and are lucky their getting away with just a fine or the option to go to a court diversion program. I mean really... we all know it is illegal to drink underage, so other then for attention reasons, why would somebody post images of themselves breaking the law on facebook and then argue it goes against their first amendment rights? Especially after signing a sport contract. I can see why the students are upset since the event took place out of school but they made it other peoples business after posting the photos on a website accessed by thousands of people across the world. The drinking age is set for a reason and the police officers were just doing their job by enforcing it. The students obviously had no problem with the thought of getting caught when they loaded the pictures on to facebook so why are they trying to fight back now that they have been busted. Maybe if they had just followed the law in the first place or just had a little bit of common sense the situation could have been avoided altogether.
I don't agree with the students in posting pictures of them with alcohol on the internet. Even though there is a possibility that they weren't actually drinking, it wasn't smart of them to post them. If they really wanted to pose with alcohol in pictures and put them on the internet, they should suffer the consequences. The internet is deffinately not private and almost anyone could have gotten ahold of those pictures. The thing that I think was the most stupid thing that the students did was post those pictures, even after a first group of students got busted for the same thing. Even though many high schoolers drink alcohol, it's still illegal. What the students in this incident did was not the brightest, and they should deal with the prosecutions that have been handed to them.
I agree with the students and feel that some of there rights are being violated. Yeah its the law, you cannot drink unless you are 21 but i do not think authorities should go out of there way to prosecute kids having a good time. there are far more things they should be worried about like murders and kidnappins ect. First off i feel that the drinking age should be lowered as most other countries have it. Its ok to join the army and kill a man at 18 but we cant choose what time of beverage to consume. Either way there should not be any persecution for a couple of pictures of kids driking the school and the authorites are blowing it way out of poportion. As for the kids they should smarten up and if they are going to partake in activities such as that where they know there might be some consequences they should prob be a little more open minded and think of what could happen to them
Pretty much everything I was going to say has already been said. The students posted photos of themselves on a public forum "imbibing alcohol." They are underage, and were in possession of a container that presumably contained alcohol (against the law). Since there is the presumption that there is alcohol in the container, and photos show them "imbibing" or drinking alcohol, it's fairly easy to say that they're guilty. We do not actually see the photos, and we were not there at the time of the incident, so we cannot confirm or deny if there was alcohol in the container. That being said, if you're holding a Coke can, and a photo is snapped of you drinking out of the Coke can, you would have a hard time trying to get people to believe you were drinking Pepsi. As far as the South Burlington VT police Dept. (the low-crime area South Burlington Vermont police Dept.) and the school resource officer using their time and resources overlooking the Myspace or Facebook Burlington High School pages to deter underage drinking, I have no problem with that. Why? Because we already pump millions into anti-drug and anti-alcohol/smoking ads and programs, so why not spend a few tax dollars knocking out underage drinking, especially in student atheletes (who are in these programs to steer them away from drugs and alcohol). The students are in the wrong, and should be deservedly punished.
After reading the article about the students from South Burlington, I definitely do not side with them, but I do have a little sympathy towards them. Because the students knowingly posted pictures of themselves performing illicit activities on a public website, the police did not violate their personal rights by accessing the pictures. Also, in no way were their first Amendment rights infringed upon because they were not prevented from expressing themselves, and the first Amendment says nothing about protecting anyone from incriminating themselves through their expression. The only Amendment that addresses self-incrimination is the fifth, and it only applies to being a witness in one's own trial. As for the school's jurisdiction, they do have the right to punish anyone abusing illegal substances who has signed a contract for sports or any other reason. For anyone who has not signed some kind of contract with the school though, the police should deal with punishment. Since the article does not show the pictures used as evidence, I have some doubt about how whether they are enough proof. The article also fails to mention the age of those who were charged. The law states that persons above 18 are legally allowed to handle alcohol so long as they don't drink it while under 21, and there is the unlikely chance that they could have been drinking something else from a bottle labeled as alcohol. However, chances are that they were in the act of underage drinking in the photos, and so their punishments seem fair enough. I think that a law should be made that clearly defines how "social networking websites" and other sources can be used as evidence. In the end it was the students' own poor judgement that got them into trouble though.
I would also like to add that I agree one hundred percent with Sweeney that the police should be focused on something more serious and the drinking age should be lowered. At 18 you are considered an adult, you can vote, and you can fight in a war, but you cannot make the decision to consume alcohol? What the hell?
I agree with Juniper's comment that the students sign a contract saying that will not use any illegal substances. I have had to sign one many times and I live up to the promise, and by no means do i think posting pictures of yourself on Facebook goes along with First Amendment. It is the perfect place to get caught drinking and it is a dumb idea to upload those pictures anyways. It is a public website anyone can join and look at anyone's pictures. These kids should understand that the police have enough evidence from the pictures that they can charge them with possession of alcohol. I really don't think the kids understand the pictures on a networking website can get them into trouble.
I think that the students recieved exactly what they deserved. If your going to drink and your underage why would you take pictures of it? doesnt make a lot of sense. They broke the law, they drank while underage. This will teach kids to not drink or atleast not to take pictures of themselves or others drinking.
Well, the question to be answered was "Did the students break the law?" If they were drinking, and are underage, then my answer is yes. It is impossible to tell from pictures alone, however, whether the students were drinking alcohol, or whether they were drinking water from alcohol bottles. Pictures such as the one's pasted on facebook alone should not be enough proof for authorities to take legal action against the students. However, I reiterate that if it could be proved that the students were drinking, then yes they broke the law. As for the purpose of this particular law, I can only assume that it was passed in an effort to protect minors. When the drinking age was changed from 18 to 21, the number of drunk driving accidents decreased by an absurd amount in the United States. By making people wait until they are 21 to drink legally, I think the government hopes that they will gain some maturity and common sense; they might even drink responsibly.
I feel that if the students didn't want to get caught they shouldn't have posted the pictures online for everyone to see. I don't feel that the students should be arrested for this bc its only pictures theres no actual proof. For all they know when the pictures were taken someone who was 21 had to tie their shoe or something and asked the under age student to hold there drink. They don't know if all the students actually consumed the alcohol by just looking at pictures.
The drinking age makes sense in this country and no other becuase this country's the most out of control. Drinking in most European countries is, in the average household, slowly infused into a child's diet and is taught to be used with the utmost amount of moderation. It's cultural and sentimental for other countries, for the United States it's about crawling into the bottle becuase we work too hard and sre too damn stressed out. France has a law, that can be broken, mandating that they take I believe it is five weeks off from work for vacation every year. This country has no vacation time mandated into law for every job. I know this is begginnning to transcend the origional issue here but people had been saying that the drinking age is too high and I say just take one look at our overworked, ford f-150-driving, fast food-eating, nation and tell me we wouldn't abuse it.
i do beleive that they DID break the law but they were not caught in the act so it should not be a crime that can be prosecuted. if the crime happened in the past than it is irrevlevant because people do change and if they didn't get in trouble at that point in time than that means that there was no reason to enforce that law considering they were not doing anything that hurt anybody or anything.
i think that its the students faults for getting busted because facebook and myspace are public sites for everyone to view. but i also dont think its fair to get bested for the pictures that they post.
Yes, photos of a criminal act can and will be used against you. Although photos alone may not be enough to punish because they could always say that they were just posing for the picture- lame exuse. But websites are indeed open to the public eye, including the authorities.
I can see 2 sides to this case where facebook is a social website that i agree can and should be used to catch people breaking the law and then posting pictures of this that could be used as evidence. but the only thing is a picture is just that a picture, allmost anyone could easily docter the picture to get someone else in trouble so yes the picture is evidence but if that is the only evidence then i belive there is not enough to go on.
noooooo totally lame man teachers shouldnt be able to use that kinda stuff against kids i mean who cares wat the kid does outside of school thats none of the teachers business
Well I have to say that the students got what they deserved. In the policy of facebook it is clearly stated that all photos are open to the public. So these kids should have known when they put the pictures up that if one person veiwed them they could have been passed down the line until they get into the hands of the wrong person. I do belive the students had some rights but also they did break the law on facebook, therefor should be punished in some sort of way and as I see it the punishment did fit the crime.
As much as I would like to be able to, I can't really side with the students on this one when they say its in violation of their first amendment rights. The internet is a very open and very much public. To me, having a page on facebook or myspace or anything else like them is like having a page in the high school yearbook. It's open for any and all who want to see it. If you're going to make the unintelligent move of putting up incriminating pictures of yourself on the world wide web, then be prepared for the consequences. I think that it's perfectly legal for cops to find and bust underage drinkers using pictures that they find online.
I think that it's ridiculous that the teachers would want to go to such extents as in too, check what their students are up to on facebook. I don't think it is any of their buisness. It's an out of school situation, and shouldn't be dealt with otherwise. On the other hand if, the police were to see the photos, then that can be used as evidence for under age drinking.
79 comments:
After reading the article I have to say I can't side with the students. Posting pictures on sites like myspace, facebook, etc. means that the infromation is open to all of the public who have access to the internet. This list includes principals, the police, and other authority figures who can find pictures on websites and use them to punish students. I feel this is a perfectly legal way to find people who are breaking the drinkinng age law. It has been said too that more and more places where you apply for a job do a search on places like facebook to check and see if you party, do drugs, etc. This is not a violation of the first amendment because no one is voicing thier opinion or speaking about somthing they believe in, they are participating in an act that is against the law for their age group.
I don't really think it is right for kids to get busted for just being in pictures. This doesnt even really prove anything. If it was a video of a drunk kid stumbling around holding a bottle of jack and pissing everywhere that i could understand.
I have a mixed opinion on these types of cases. While the pictures arent exactly private to have a student tip off a teacher who tips off the police is a complete invasion of personal privacy. However at the same time, it's not exactly a smart decision to post pictures of yoruself with alcoholic drinks in them because all it takes is one person turning the pictures in. While the first group of people it happened to dont have as much of an excuse, the second group of kids should have known its happened before, and if they put up their pictures, it could happen again.
I'm with the students, because kids shouldn't be getting punished for things they did outside of school, and not on school grounds. I mean I would understand if someone popped open a beer in the school parking lot and got caught, yeah they should get into trouble, but kids who are drinking outside of school, shouldn't be punished in school, and kicked off sport teams for that.(That's what parents are for.) Yeah, the cops might just be doing their jobs, but a picture is a picture, they can be deceiving. A picture of someone drinking isn't the same as busting a party and actually catching kids who are under the drinking age in the act. So I think the cops are totally out of line here, but you still shouldn't post pictures of you drinking or smoking pot or anything you don't want other people knowing, because it will get out. But we still have some moron's out there who are still going to do it.
I can't take the authorities side for this because they don't have proof that they were drinking. The students were dumb for posting the pictures. Which does show evidence but unless the photos were being taking by the police. They really wouldn't know if they were posing or not yea i mean we all know that they weren't posing. We know they were drinking just like they know they were. But it's there fault for posting the pictures online. They are online which is public and the authorities do look on the internet to find things that they can bust. They are breaking the law by drinking and their underage. but the authorities still can't use them for evidence they could be posing.
When the students posted the pictures online of themselves drinking, it was their decision, and their right. If the police or principal sees the pictures, yes they could get suspicious but i don't think that they could use the pictures against them. I think that they could use the pictures to be aware of what the students are actually doing. So say the administration or coach got a tip that a player is drinking and they have seen the pictures they could help them make a decision whether to investigate the case but i do think that if it is not effecting the student during school then the administration has no authority to use the pictures against the students.
Students are getting busted for everything, and technically they were practicing underage drinking, but it had nothing to do with school, and was not done on school grounds. They knew what they were posting on the website, and they also knew that everyone could see those pictures so if they were really concerned they shouldn't have put them on there. I think the parents should have been the ones punishing them however, I don't believe that the police had the right to do that. It also depends on what the pictures were showing to punish the kids. If anything, the police should have told their parents of the pictures, and not have taken such serious measures. It is a tough issue in the court system to handle, but in most cases the parents should be taking care of it, especially if they were only drinking. If they were drinking and driving or doing other serious things like that, then the police should have taken action, but for something like that, it should be the parents that punish their children.
In a way the students did do something illegal. It's stated very clearly that alcohol is illegal for any person under the age of 21. But I most definetly do not side with the law on this one. when you put things on the internet it is for the public to see, but i dont think its right for police to bust you. they should not be able to look you up, and bust you. i dont think its fair, and i think its exactly why people dont like the police. if this really is a "free country", kids shouldnt have to live in fear of the cops busting you because they're invading your privacy. granted, it was against the law, but i still dont think its fair. they didnt catch you when you did it..i dont see how they can get you in trouble for something that you didnt get caught with in the very beginning..
I can't really say on who I'm siding on. The students had been caught once already, and they didn't try to use the first amendment to get out of the charges then, so it seems they're just looking to get out of trouble. However, it does seem that the police had voilated the student's right to free speech and expression.
I think the police had every right to press the charges that they did. First of all, the student atheletes were underage. Underage drinking is a crime, and the police had evidence to back up their convictions. The students did not have to post the pictures on the web for everyone to see; that was a mistake on their part. Also, what kind of an example would authorities be setting if they had not punished the students? Underage drinking can become dangerous if the people are not responsible, that is why there is a drinking age in the first place.
I really don't know if i can side with the students, especially if they got caught once. Also, the second time they tried using the first amendment wasn't right, if they smart they would've used it on the first account but they didn't. So therefore i don't think they should get away with it. But the biggest problem is that they broke the drinking age which wasn't right. And hopefully they would be smart and not post them drinking on a very popular website where everyone goes on.
I think the kids in this situation maybe should have thought more about posting these pictures on a site where tons of people can see. They could have at least set there pictures to private along with there profile if they really wanted to post those things. I also do beleive that the first amendment does give them a right, but still the law is age 21 for drinkind and they were underage drinking which is wrong. and if they were on contract for there school sports ect. then they should not be drinking either. so all in all i think they had it comming but it was a low blow from the police department.
Ok look, now if your naieve enough to really post a picture of yourself parting it up on myspace or facebook you deserve to get counsiling. Like i really dont think anyone really cares about you acting like a moron in front of a camera, unless your getting attacked by a tiger. So regardless if your caught, you are still going to get the proper punishment just as anyone else would.
- This topic just got "sizzled"
Everyone so far has made very good points in defending their opinion. Personally i feel that poeople in general need to think twice about what they put on the internet.
I feel that checking underage students profiles is a little to much. In this case i have to side with the authorities. The students should be punished for the way they acted.
Maybe from this experience they will learn first off drink if your under 21. secondally that they will think twice before they put pictures of themselves on the internet. No one should think that they are untouchable.
I hope the best for the students and i hope that other students learned from what happened.
I think that these students made a bad decsion but first drinking underaged, and second putting up pictures of it online where everyone can see. i dont think they should be penalized, because there really is no solid proof they were drinking...also they don't really know when these pictures were taken. also, the students shouldnt be penalized by the SCHOOL either. its not like they were drinking at school, and events and affairs outside of school property really shouldnt be any concern to the school faculty. to punish the athletes is another issue, dealing with athletic contracts and things of that nature, but still they dont have any solid proof. these students should not be penalized by the law or by the school, because they have no real proof, they werent caught in the act, and it wasn't in school. hopefully these students and others learn from this.
After reading this article i cant really side. The kids should not of posted pictures of them drinking online. cause they should know that people look at these including police and some schools. Sure the kids have the right to post what ever they want but they need to look at what can happen. cause even kids at our school have been cought in pictures on myspace or facebook. ending up with suspension and even dealing with the police. so i guess im more siding with the authorities cause there just using the free open resources to check on kids to make sure there not breaking the law. So if you dont wanna get cought dont take pictures and post them online. its that simple
and i guessi have to argue with jen alittle bit. well yes it is a fee country but... the cops arent going through your personal info you posted it for the world to see. so the cops should have the right to investigate this issue. and yes they didnt catch them in the act but pictures explian more than words and as much as actions. Just my opinion Jenn
After reading this article i have to say that i agree with both sides. How do the authorities know that the students were actually drinking alcohol.. unless the bottle distinctly shows the name of an alcohol how do they know what is in the bottle. However, the kids know that they are underage to drink and sould of thought about putting pictures like that on the internet. Anyone can access the pictures you post on myspace or facebook unless you distinctly say that only your friends can view them. The students alos probably signed a contract saying that while they participated in the sports that they would not use drugs or alcohol. So i agree with the administrations decision to take them off the team for violating the contract that they signed at the beggining off the season.
reading this article makes me question the intelligence in my generation. yes the get what they deserved for posting it on the internet. Reason one its on the internet any one can gain access to this. Two You reap the benefits of your actions, positive or negative. Third and final its like file sharing sense 90% of American youth take in by leeching or seeding files, you know its wrong but yet you still do it
I dont think that the students should get in trouble for doing something outside of school. Thats violating the students rights to have things on their facebook. If the students want to put pictures of themselves with alcoholic beveages they shouldnt have to worry about the school punishing them for it. It is all about privacy. The school isnt responsible for the students drinking outside of school so they should back off. The students werent drinking in school and they also werent caught when it happend. Those pictures could be years old for all the police know. If the students werent caught by the police when it happend then the issue is done and over with, it shouldnt be brought up later. I deffinately have to take the students side on this. If they were drinking in school then they should get punished but since they werent then the school really has nothing to do with it. Like for example, if a student was swearing at the store and a teacher walks by and yells at the student, the student doesnt have to listen to the teacher. Teachers have no control over students outside of school. so they should not be able to turn a kid in for drinking. I just think it is unfair that teachers can turn students in for something that didnt happen in school. The police should not have gotten invovled with this case to begin with. This just shows why students hate teachers and the police. The students drinking is their parents and their problem not the schools.
I really can’t side with the students in this article. These students should have thought about the consequences of posting the pictures of them drinking. If you’re going to drink when you’re underage you really shouldn’t be putting evidence on the web for the whole world to see. At this point people should know that schools and companies can hack into face book to find this information, so why not police officers. It is the students fault for being so ignorant.
After looking at this article i have realized what the world has really come to. Stupidity. The students who put pictures on myspace or whatever site, of them or others posessing alcohol are setting themselves up. They are proving to whoever looks at it that they are indeed posessing alcohol. If someone is stupid enough to post that stuff then they deserve to be charged with possession.
Weather it is a matter of their right to express from the 1st ammendment, i think it is not violating their rights at all. But the students are giving the police evidence so they are privating investigators, taking pictures of themselves, and then framing themselves.
i agree, if you post procusting evidence of yourself or others while under the age in pocession of illegal material while being under the age you should be punished. but i also understands the students point of view i would feel i put photos up on the internet. on my facebook or myspace or such place i would feel that violated my privacy rights. but i get why they got punished. it was a wrong win though cause i get why the students would feel violated in there first admentment rights. but just like everything there always a limit to your rights involving boundaries and obv. those boundaries were crossed.
Well, I'm sorry if your underage and your dumb enough to do illegal things, then your dumb enough to get cought, and if your dumb enough to publish your pictures on a sight were people can public see them, then your even dummer. If you don't want to get caught, don't have evidence, and pictures are plenty of evidence. I think that the officer was well within his rights finding the pictures, and catching those students. It wasn't like the officer went into someones bag, and illegally gained possesion of a camera and looked through their pictures. The officer would need a warrent for this, however, if someone through something in the trash, then that has become public property, and the officer no longer needs a warrent to get this info. I believe the internet is like public property, I don't think a warrent is needed to get information off of the internet, since it is concidered public property. I also think that is a moral help, because I believe it teaches them a good lesson that will help them prevent doing something stupid, like drinking and driving.
I think that its the students fault and they shouldn't be mad that they got caught. If they signed some sort of contract and were caught vioilating it, than the school should be able to suspend them. For all the school knows, those pictures could have been taken during the summer and doesnt concern them. They did break the law and it wasn't like the police were looking for them to, someone just told on them. I think that the school should not have punished them, the police just did their job and they shouldnt be mad.
After reading this article, I have mixed opinions. Students most definetly set themselves up, when posting pictures of themselves using illegal substaces underage on myspace, facebook or any other website relative to those. Not saying drinking is good, but if your underage, and you're going to drink...DON'T TAKE PICTURES...DUHH?!?!...you're doing an illegal act. I believe that it's pure evidence if your caught red handed with a beer in your hand drinking and such. Your bound to get caught sooner or later. There's always that one person thats going to be a "rat" persay. For me...its just all common sense, by now we know whats wrong and whats right. Other then that and getting busted your in good shape. Looking at it in the students perspective, I could also see it as a violation of privacy. Considering, that it has nothing to do with the school system, I do not believe that they have any right to intervine unless the student(s) are on a sport, club, etc. and have signed a documented contract...other then that they should just leave it up to the police and have the police take it into there own hands.
I think that the students definitely broke the law. I mean if there's pictures of you drinking alcohol and you're underaged, then that's it. Also, if you're dumb enough to put pictures of yourself breaking the law online for everyone to see then you deserve to get in trouble because that's just plain stupid.
Personally, I feel it was wrong for the students to be doing underage drinking, but the police were also at fault for commencing such punishments. I agree with the students in that their first amendment rights were broken, however,the students know that the pictures are open to the public so they should be more aware and responsible of what pictures they choose to put on their facebook profile. This was an invasion of the students' privacy, but it was their own fault for posting those pictures. Students drinking alcohol, especially if they are underage, is an automatic "red flag" for parents and police. Not only are parents supposed to be responsible for their children, but the police serve as a guardian for kids as well. They are their to look out for students and their safety. I feel it's wrong for the police to be invading a student's privacy on the web, however students should be careful and think twice before they post suspicious pictures online.
After reading this article I have to agree that these students had a right to be punished. As kids of a technology savvy era a lot of the time we find ourselves taking advantage of the fact that parents and others of their generation don't know what we do online. And most of the time that is the case. But posting pictures on such websites as facebook and myspace aren't just available for your friends and classmates to see and it's about time that teens begin to realize that. Therefore I feel that students being punished in Vermont schools based on the pictures found on facebook are acceptable because they most likely signed similar contracts that the students at our school do before playing sports. On the other hand though, I do not think that the pictures were substantial enough evidence to convict the students and make them pay a fine. Overall though students need to learn to be more careful when posting pictures online because although alone they cannot prove minors are drinking, they can provide leads in such cases.
I beleave that the kids have a right to fight back at the charges. The kids shouldnt get in trouble for something they do outside of school just for a picture. Putting up a picture of there outside of school life is there own right, they shouldnt be accused of getting in trouble by the school for things in there personal life.
i feel as though there was not enough hard evidence. for all we know the kid was showing off trying to be "cool" and it just got out of control. The students could have poured water into the alcohol containers or something stupid like that. i have had friends do that, its just dumb luck that the cops decided to act know. what do they think they can do... stop underage drinking completely? Most of the student in highschool drink and once they turn 21 the cops cant do much. I can understand why they want to stop underage drinking... but try to catch the people in the act.... not go by heresay, cause thats all a picture is.
The absolute thoughtlessness that shrouds this case just bothers me incessantly. It goes almost entirely undisputed, apart from debates of more religious or moral grounding, that what a minor, of any age, does in the sanctuary of his or her own home is quite simply their own business; something parents should be the direct monitor of, bearing all the responsibility. However in the same way it goes relatively undisputed that as soon as any minor posts pictures of themselves involved in illegal activities on a profiling website which is specifically designed for friends and strangers alike to view, it must be assumed that, like throwing out the trash onto the public sidewalk, you've completely relinquished all ties and burdens over it, and it is now in anyone's domain to view. Never-the-less it's rather sleezy of the student informant who told on the kids posing with alcohol in their hands, to go directly to school authorities with it. In all honesty, and the point has been made, the act was committed outside of school and therefore the school shouldn't have any jurisdiction. However the police, whose jurisdiction unfortunately, now today in the age of the patriot act extends well into our homes, have the right to prosecute the students. Also one quick note. Who the hell is these kids lawyer? The first Amendment? The first amendment has literally almost no bearing here. The freedom of speech and expression isn't about posting incriminating pictures of oneself imbibing (a word which by definition means "in the act of consuming") alcohol on the World Wide Web. It's most definitely about more honorable pursuits of protest and speaking out against a united majority. The law these students should be defending is the fourth amendment it seems. You know, actually privacy. Yet their case probably steers away from it because it inadvertently states that if someone informs the authorities with specific information about a crime, those authorities can pursue it. Drink if you want but drink without cameras... you'll just get screwed. Many have tried and very few have succeeded at evading the law.
after i read this article the first thing i did was check my facebook for any of that kind of stuff (just kidding). i thought these students had a right to be angry by this but they are the ones who put those pictures on a public website that anyone can see. yes their privacy was breached a little bit but they should watch out what they are doing. im sure if i was in their shoes, i would feel the same way but when it is you in that situation you are obviously going to feel the same way about it. the police did not violate any privacy laws or violate any rights to people by this and they were not in the wrong whatsoever.
These students of South Burlington High School undoubtedly broke the law when they were underage drinking and they made a foolish decision to post photos of them possessing alcohol on facebook. The argument by the students that facebook is private to the student is completely false. They know that when you put pictures onto facebook that they can be accessed easily and are, from then on, public information. They also said that it is part of the first amendment that they have the right to show pictures of them drinking under age. The first amendment cannot shield you from the fact that you broke the law. This is also the second time that this has happened; you should think that the kids would learn their lesson. The punishment that the hockey player received is actually quite lenient, only being suspended from a sports team. Pictures are substantial evidence when dealing with the possession of alcohol. After all you do not need to be caught in the act to show possession, pictures can clearly show that.
if the student athletes signed a substance free contract, and they violated that clearly, than the school has every right to suspend them from their respective sports. not only did this happen in vermont, but there has been a few cases of this right here in our own little piece of heaven known as plymouth regional high school. while obviously it seems kinda underhanded for a student to bring something like this to the attention of the administration, no one can really expect the school to just sit back and let it happen. if they did it would almost seem like they were condoning the aforementioned actions. if the kids want to drink they should be a little smarter about it, i am not condoning underage substance abuse, but if they are putting videos and pictures of themselves on facebook or myspace doing a keg stand or shotgunning a beer, they are just asking for trouble. and as everyone can see, i have no life because i am blogging for school at 1:30 in the morning.
The students cannot bed convicted there is not enough physical evidence to convict these students, any judge will tell you that an open alcoholic beverage in hand does not meen that you are guilty of internal possesion of alcohol. Unless there is a B.A.C. of these students at the time of teh alleged intoxication then these students cannot be convicted.
Kevin the kids did do this out side of school but they still broke the law... there under aged and like Chris said they signed a contract saying they wont drink or do drugs. Breaking that the school and law enforcement could step in suspend the kids and even make the kids do communite service or something along the lines. And yes the have the right to fight back but it wont do much with picture proof of what they did.
I read the article and as much as i would like to agree with the students, i cant. The students had the right to post those pictures on facebook, but there's nothing in the first ammendment that says the police can't nab them for something illegal, just cus they have the right to post. The students were all doing something illegal and if they get in trouble that's their own fault for posting the pictures. They still have the right to post them, nothing is saying they hav to take them down, they just are going to get in trouble for underage drinking.
The students are just a bunch of idiotas. If they put up a picture of them killing someone, would they expect to get away with it? How thick can you be.
After reading this I have to say I don't agree with the students.One if the students knew they were on a sports team they shouldnt be drinking anyways and if they did choose to they are just stupid to put pictures online.Drinking underage is breaking a law and the police had every right to step in and do something. One thing that some other people said is that they did it outside of school so the school shouldnt have anything to do with it;I aree with this but the students signed a contract saying they wouldnt so i believe at that point the sports team does have say.I think a picture doesnt prove they are guilty of drinking but why take a picture and put it online if you as a sstudent know there is a chance of have to deal with the police?
i don't really think it's right for them to use those pictures against the kids- but then again i don't think they should have been underage drinking as well. maybe it would make more sense for the kids to be punished by just the police instead of the school. what did those kids drinking have to to with school at all? they were drinking outside of school, not in school. and those pictures really can't be used as evidence because who says that it's not fake? i mean obviously they were drinking.. but in an official evidence situation, i'm not sure it would actually work.
I think that the students weren't too smart posting pics of them "gettin crunk". The cops and school have all the right to intervene if they kids decide to drink duringa time when they have signed a contracts satyin that they wont. i dont have any objections to the police of school using facebook or anyother website with picutres and profiles as evidence.
I don't agree with what the students say. I think that if they're ignorant enough to post pictures of them doing things, or being involved in illegal activities, such as underage drinking, then those pictures are free game. What these students were doing, is illegal, so obviously photos of them drinking or in the possession of alcohol, can get them caught. It's the students faults' for getting caught doing something illegal and then posting the pictures on facebook to publicize their rebelliousness. Maybe they did it to look cool and macho or whatever, but it's still illegal, and it seems like they're more upset that they got caught than that it's an invasion of privacy... if they were concerned about that, then they just simply wouldn’t have a facebook. It's so easy for anyone to copy, paste, or save pictures posted on networks like this, so if it's something that one could get caught or in trouble for, it's better off left off the internet.
... And I agree with Jupe, that if these students were playing school sports, under a contract that stated they would not participate in illegal activity like drinking, then the school has every right to prosecute them for this. They signed a written document saying the wouldn't participate in under age drinking, or the use of other drugs, and they clearly broke that contract, their fault.
The moral is dont get your picture taken while drunk.
1. its incriminating
2. you will probally look stupid in it.
I think that its partly the fault of the students that they got caught. Obviously your drinking underage and the pictures are found theres going to be some consequences. If you're going to drink dont post the pictures and it wont be an issue, not condoning it or anything. The school also kind of has a right to intervene with athletes becasue they've signed contratcs stating they wont drink during the season (not just school grounds).
If somebody puts something up on the internet then they should be ready and willing to show it to anybody that might convieably have acess to the internet, putting a picture up on any website is the same thing as putting it on your shirt, if a cop saw somebody walking down the street who was clearly a minor wearing a picture of him drinkning then that is not an invasion of privacy, if however the picture were in your pocket and the cop searched you without a warrant and found it then it could be argued as an invasion of privacy, this brings up the question as to wether a cop can visit facebook without invading peoples privacy. Invasion of privacy laws are created to protect the innocent, but these people were clearly breaking the law, they are guilty of a crime beyond any reason of a doubt and so should be prosecuted, there is a movie called The Star Chamber that deals with much the same thing. In the movie a serial murderer is released because a piece of key evidence that was found that proved him to be the killer was deemed unadmisable evidence because of the methods the cops used to obtain it. The murderer was clearly guilty yet got away with it. If some of these children are aquitted of their crime it could set a precedent for much worse criminals to do the same.
This is an abuse of power. I agree that this is going againest first amendment right. I see could if the police wanted to use them, but the school has no right to get involved. I think using pictures to prove anything in the first place is unaccecptable. If the person is not hold an actule labled bottle or can than they cannot prove what the person is drinking. Also they are not ceatching them in the act. Unless the person is caught with the alcohol or drunk than they people should not and can not be charged.
it may be their first amendment right to post photos of themselves, however it is not their first amendment right to be involved in criminal activitites. and horan, you don't need any BAC tests to prove internal possession. possession is a crime all on its own. possession is 9/10ths of the law. if someone posted a photo of an underage girl posing nude, and the police found it, would they say, oh we cannot prosecute them because of the first amendment. thats bull.
I'm not quite sure what the big deal is. The students posted their pictures on the internet where anyone can view them. It's not like TLO vs New Jersey where someone went through personal property and found illegal substances. These pictures were available to everyone and no ones rights were violated. I don't think there is a real arguement against the people who suspended the kids from their sports.
After I have read this article I agree with the students. I don't think that they should be punished by the school for things they have done outside school grounds. If the police only have evidence through pictures then what are they proving? I think the police busting the kids through facebook is fine, posting pictures on there is asking to be busted. I think if it were the principal who caught the kids on facebook then it would be different.. Overall though I think that posting pictures of partying on any sites like that is just a way to get yourself caught.
After reading the article i agree but also deagree. Kids should not put photos on a site that is open to everyone to see. They should of used common sence.And its not a violation to the kids privacy because the kids should know that everyone can see it and use it.But also the police only have photos they did not catch the kids in the act. And those pictures could of been from a long time ago. maybe some of the kids in the picture didn't even drink and there getting in trouble for nothing.But over all i can't agree with either side.
I believe that the students did something completely out of line and stupid and are lucky their getting away with just a fine or the option to go to a court diversion program. I mean really... we all know it is illegal to drink underage, so other then for attention reasons, why would somebody post images of themselves breaking the law on facebook and then argue it goes against their first amendment rights? Especially after signing a sport contract. I can see why the students are upset since the event took place out of school but they made it other peoples business after posting the photos on a website accessed by thousands of people across the world. The drinking age is set for a reason and the police officers were just doing their job by enforcing it. The students obviously had no problem with the thought of getting caught when they loaded the pictures on to facebook so why are they trying to fight back now that they have been busted. Maybe if they had just followed the law in the first place or just had a little bit of common sense the situation could have been avoided altogether.
I don't agree with the students in posting pictures of them with alcohol on the internet. Even though there is a possibility that they weren't actually drinking, it wasn't smart of them to post them. If they really wanted to pose with alcohol in pictures and put them on the internet, they should suffer the consequences. The internet is deffinately not private and almost anyone could have gotten ahold of those pictures. The thing that I think was the most stupid thing that the students did was post those pictures, even after a first group of students got busted for the same thing. Even though many high schoolers drink alcohol, it's still illegal. What the students in this incident did was not the brightest, and they should deal with the prosecutions that have been handed to them.
I agree with the students and feel that some of there rights are being violated. Yeah its the law, you cannot drink unless you are 21 but i do not think authorities should go out of there way to prosecute kids having a good time. there are far more things they should be worried about like murders and kidnappins ect. First off i feel that the drinking age should be lowered as most other countries have it. Its ok to join the army and kill a man at 18 but we cant choose what time of beverage to consume. Either way there should not be any persecution for a couple of pictures of kids driking the school and the authorites are blowing it way out of poportion. As for the kids they should smarten up and if they are going to partake in activities such as that where they know there might be some consequences they should prob be a little more open minded and think of what could happen to them
Pretty much everything I was going to say has already been said. The students posted photos of themselves on a public forum "imbibing alcohol." They are underage, and were in possession of a container that presumably contained alcohol (against the law). Since there is the presumption that there is alcohol in the container, and photos show them "imbibing" or drinking alcohol, it's fairly easy to say that they're guilty. We do not actually see the photos, and we were not there at the time of the incident, so we cannot confirm or deny if there was alcohol in the container. That being said, if you're holding a Coke can, and a photo is snapped of you drinking out of the Coke can, you would have a hard time trying to get people to believe you were drinking Pepsi. As far as the South Burlington VT police Dept. (the low-crime area South Burlington Vermont police Dept.) and the school resource officer using their time and resources overlooking the Myspace or Facebook Burlington High School pages to deter underage drinking, I have no problem with that. Why? Because we already pump millions into anti-drug and anti-alcohol/smoking ads and programs, so why not spend a few tax dollars knocking out underage drinking, especially in student atheletes (who are in these programs to steer them away from drugs and alcohol). The students are in the wrong, and should be deservedly punished.
End of message.
After reading the article about the students from South Burlington, I definitely do not side with them, but I do have a little sympathy towards them. Because the students knowingly posted pictures of themselves performing illicit activities on a public website, the police did not violate their personal rights by accessing the pictures. Also, in no way were their first Amendment rights infringed upon because they were not prevented from expressing themselves, and the first Amendment says nothing about protecting anyone from incriminating themselves through their expression. The only Amendment that addresses self-incrimination is the fifth, and it only applies to being a witness in one's own trial. As for the school's jurisdiction, they do have the right to punish anyone abusing illegal substances who has signed a contract for sports or any other reason. For anyone who has not signed some kind of contract with the school though, the police should deal with punishment. Since the article does not show the pictures used as evidence, I have some doubt about how whether they are enough proof. The article also fails to mention the age of those who were charged. The law states that persons above 18 are legally allowed to handle alcohol so long as they don't drink it while under 21, and there is the unlikely chance that they could have been drinking something else from a bottle labeled as alcohol. However, chances are that they were in the act of underage drinking in the photos, and so their punishments seem fair enough. I think that a law should be made that clearly defines how "social networking websites" and other sources can be used as evidence. In the end it was the students' own poor judgement that got them into trouble though.
I would also like to add that I agree one hundred percent with Sweeney that the police should be focused on something more serious and the drinking age should be lowered. At 18 you are considered an adult, you can vote, and you can fight in a war, but you cannot make the decision to consume alcohol? What the hell?
I agree with Juniper's comment that the students sign a contract saying that will not use any illegal substances. I have had to sign one many times and I live up to the promise, and by no means do i think posting pictures of yourself on Facebook goes along with First Amendment. It is the perfect place to get caught drinking and it is a dumb idea to upload those pictures anyways. It is a public website anyone can join and look at anyone's pictures. These kids should understand that the police have enough evidence from the pictures that they can charge them with possession of alcohol. I really don't think the kids understand the pictures on a networking website can get them into trouble.
All i can say is that if that is illegal, then this should be too http://kids-in-sandbox.com/
I think that the students recieved exactly what they deserved. If your going to drink and your underage why would you take pictures of it? doesnt make a lot of sense. They broke the law, they drank while underage. This will teach kids to not drink or atleast not to take pictures of themselves or others drinking.
Well, the question to be answered was "Did the students break the law?" If they were drinking, and are underage, then my answer is yes. It is impossible to tell from pictures alone, however, whether the students were drinking alcohol, or whether they were drinking water from alcohol bottles. Pictures such as the one's pasted on facebook alone should not be enough proof for authorities to take legal action against the students. However, I reiterate that if it could be proved that the students were drinking, then yes they broke the law. As for the purpose of this particular law, I can only assume that it was passed in an effort to protect minors. When the drinking age was changed from 18 to 21, the number of drunk driving accidents decreased by an absurd amount in the United States. By making people wait until they are 21 to drink legally, I think the government hopes that they will gain some maturity and common sense; they might even drink responsibly.
I feel that if the students didn't want to get caught they shouldn't have posted the pictures online for everyone to see. I don't feel that the students should be arrested for this bc its only pictures theres no actual proof. For all they know when the pictures were taken someone who was 21 had to tie their shoe or something and asked the under age student to hold there drink. They don't know if all the students actually consumed the alcohol by just looking at pictures.
The drinking age makes sense in this country and no other becuase this country's the most out of control. Drinking in most European countries is, in the average household, slowly infused into a child's diet and is taught to be used with the utmost amount of moderation. It's cultural and sentimental for other countries, for the United States it's about crawling into the bottle becuase we work too hard and sre too damn stressed out. France has a law, that can be broken, mandating that they take I believe it is five weeks off from work for vacation every year. This country has no vacation time mandated into law for every job. I know this is begginnning to transcend the origional issue here but people had been saying that the drinking age is too high and I say just take one look at our overworked, ford f-150-driving, fast food-eating, nation and tell me we wouldn't abuse it.
i do beleive that they DID break the law but they were not caught in the act so it should not be a crime that can be prosecuted. if the crime happened in the past than it is irrevlevant because people do change and if they didn't get in trouble at that point in time than that means that there was no reason to enforce that law considering they were not doing anything that hurt anybody or anything.
i think that its the students faults for getting busted because facebook and myspace are public sites for everyone to view. but i also dont think its fair to get bested for the pictures that they post.
Yes, photos of a criminal act can and will be used against you. Although photos alone may not be enough to punish because they could always say that they were just posing for the picture- lame exuse. But websites are indeed open to the public eye, including the authorities.
I can see 2 sides to this case where facebook is a social website that i agree can and should be used to catch people breaking the law and then posting pictures of this that could be used as evidence. but the only thing is a picture is just that a picture, allmost anyone could easily docter the picture to get someone else in trouble so yes the picture is evidence but if that is the only evidence then i belive there is not enough to go on.
noooooo totally lame man teachers shouldnt be able to use that kinda stuff against kids i mean who cares wat the kid does outside of school thats none of the teachers business
Well I have to say that the students got what they deserved. In the policy of facebook it is clearly stated that all photos are open to the public. So these kids should have known when they put the pictures up that if one person veiwed them they could have been passed down the line until they get into the hands of the wrong person. I do belive the students had some rights but also they did break the law on facebook, therefor should be punished in some sort of way and as I see it the punishment did fit the crime.
As much as I would like to be able to, I can't really side with the students on this one when they say its in violation of their first amendment rights.
The internet is a very open and very much public. To me, having a page on facebook or myspace or anything else like them is like having a page in the high school yearbook. It's open for any and all who want to see it.
If you're going to make the unintelligent move of putting up incriminating pictures of yourself on the world wide web, then be prepared for the consequences.
I think that it's perfectly legal for cops to find and bust underage drinkers using pictures that they find online.
I think that it's ridiculous that the teachers would want to go to such extents as in too, check what their students are up to on facebook. I don't think it is any of their buisness. It's an out of school situation, and shouldn't be dealt with otherwise. On the other hand if, the police were to see the photos, then that can be used as evidence for under age drinking.
Post a Comment